Gaylene,
I spent a few days on the Internet to see what I could find about this James Rawlen from Sancreed. I'm thinking that he died in Madron, Cornwall, England on the 21st of April in 1673. If this is the same man, then he couldn't have been our guy. But this is just a guess.
I have looked in vain for my copy of John R Rawlins book on the Rawlins/Rollins line. If you have yours handy could you tell me what year he published it? The reason I'm wondering is that there was a transcript done in 1877 of the Sancreed Parish registers, and it may be that he was in contact with this man and that's where he got his information from in thinking James came from Cornwall because there are quite a few Rawling entries there and close by that early.
If you do talk to Susan, will you ask her about her sources? I see her James on the IGI, but am just wondering if she has anything other than the Parish registers to link him with the James we're looking for.
thanks,
z
From: Gaylene Johnson [mailto:gjretired@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:43 PM
To: merrylu.zeller@gmail.com
Subject: RE: James Rawlin's Father
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:43 PM
To: merrylu.zeller@gmail.com
Subject: RE: James Rawlin's Father
Merry Lu,
I am so impressed with your timeline and research. I would love to work with you to verify this line. I'd feel a lot better if we could have good sources ourselves. Also, I attend a Salt Lake City Family History group organized by "DearMyrtle" blogger, Pat. She gives research advice to us. She would possibly have good recommendations for us for our search efforts.
The information I have recorded on this line is: James Rollins, Chr 12 Oct 1816, Sancreed, Cornwall, England. A cousin, Susan, an avid genealogist who lives in Pocatello I believe has some sources on this, but I'm not sure. I will try to call her this week and see what she has. (Actually, I better get out the paperwork on this line and make sure she didn't already give me the sources. I'm trying to scan and digitize all my records to get them in one place.) I haven't spent a lot of time on this line, but would like to. James' father, Willyam was chr. 15 Apr 1587, Sancreed, Cornwall, England. His father, Thomas, from Cornwall, born about 1560. It would be interesting and insightful to get these records figured out.
Let's keep in touch. Perhaps, in the next few weeks or so I could come to Cache Valley and meet with you. For now I'd love to keep in touch by email. I noticed you posted a request for a picture of Enoch Param Rollins. Did you get any good responses?
Have you done the same extensive timeline for Enoch Param Rollins as you did on James? I found where he lived on the Winter Quarters site, but have not had the chance to check Nauvoo land records for where he lived on the Mississippi. Do you have any land records on him in Nauvoo?
Last summer I met a woman from Salt Lake who is a descendant from Sophia Wing Philbrook's line. She said Sophia, visiting children in California, wasn't aware that Enoch married Sarah Jane. The family rumor is she never lived with Enoch again, angry because of this. There's also a man who works at the family history center in Draper from this line. His previous emails were vague, but he published a history in their newsletter. I keep thinking I'll go out and talk to him to see if he has any more info, but I do need to organize all the records I have.
Sorry I'm rambling on, but this is an interesting line.
Thanks!
Gaylene Johnson
P. S. I've attached Enoch's Deseret News obit. just in case you don't have it. Also, the Winter Quarters map where he lived at Council Point (near Winter Quarters). I also have all the histories available from DUP that I hope someday to combine and publish a history with all his sources and stories, but feel like there is probably more verification out there. Also, I have many census records saved on him and his family.
I am so impressed with your timeline and research. I would love to work with you to verify this line. I'd feel a lot better if we could have good sources ourselves. Also, I attend a Salt Lake City Family History group organized by "DearMyrtle" blogger, Pat. She gives research advice to us. She would possibly have good recommendations for us for our search efforts.
The information I have recorded on this line is: James Rollins, Chr 12 Oct 1816, Sancreed, Cornwall, England. A cousin, Susan, an avid genealogist who lives in Pocatello I believe has some sources on this, but I'm not sure. I will try to call her this week and see what she has. (Actually, I better get out the paperwork on this line and make sure she didn't already give me the sources. I'm trying to scan and digitize all my records to get them in one place.) I haven't spent a lot of time on this line, but would like to. James' father, Willyam was chr. 15 Apr 1587, Sancreed, Cornwall, England. His father, Thomas, from Cornwall, born about 1560. It would be interesting and insightful to get these records figured out.
Let's keep in touch. Perhaps, in the next few weeks or so I could come to Cache Valley and meet with you. For now I'd love to keep in touch by email. I noticed you posted a request for a picture of Enoch Param Rollins. Did you get any good responses?
Have you done the same extensive timeline for Enoch Param Rollins as you did on James? I found where he lived on the Winter Quarters site, but have not had the chance to check Nauvoo land records for where he lived on the Mississippi. Do you have any land records on him in Nauvoo?
Last summer I met a woman from Salt Lake who is a descendant from Sophia Wing Philbrook's line. She said Sophia, visiting children in California, wasn't aware that Enoch married Sarah Jane. The family rumor is she never lived with Enoch again, angry because of this. There's also a man who works at the family history center in Draper from this line. His previous emails were vague, but he published a history in their newsletter. I keep thinking I'll go out and talk to him to see if he has any more info, but I do need to organize all the records I have.
Sorry I'm rambling on, but this is an interesting line.
Thanks!
Gaylene Johnson
P. S. I've attached Enoch's Deseret News obit. just in case you don't have it. Also, the Winter Quarters map where he lived at Council Point (near Winter Quarters). I also have all the histories available from DUP that I hope someday to combine and publish a history with all his sources and stories, but feel like there is probably more verification out there. Also, I have many census records saved on him and his family.
From: merrylu.zeller@gmail.com
To: gjretired@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: James Rawlin's Father
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:45:29 -0600
To: gjretired@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: James Rawlin's Father
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:45:29 -0600
Gaylene,
I haven't actually ever been on the New FamilySearch to tell the truth. Who is it showing as James Father? Have you by chance checked his name in the Cornwall parish records? I did a name distribution once for the 1600 in England, and the majority of those with names similar to Rawlins were all located on the
Eastern side of the island. Does your father have a place name other than just Cornwall? We could possibly double check that way. As I've been working to clean up what are obvious errors I've found very little documentation on the line. I think we're lucky that Enoch Perham did most of his family's work so hopefully the generations that he did are accurate, but further than three generations back it seems to get a little bit shaky.
Eastern side of the island. Does your father have a place name other than just Cornwall? We could possibly double check that way. As I've been working to clean up what are obvious errors I've found very little documentation on the line. I think we're lucky that Enoch Perham did most of his family's work so hopefully the generations that he did are accurate, but further than three generations back it seems to get a little bit shaky.
If we're correct on Ichabod's birth, in 1640, and that he emigrated around 1632, and was made a freeman in 1634 he would have had to have been born at least by 1603 because there were only a few instances where men younger than 21 were allowed to sign the freeman oath before that age in Plymouth, and 16 for the Pilgrims in the Massachusetts Bay area. The sources that John R. Rollins quotes in articles that were precursors to his book, (NEHGR 1853) are:
Hon. John Wentworth
Reverend A. H. Quint
T. B. Wyman
H. G. Somersby Esq.
Farmer
Dover Records
I've never found anything on James as far as immigration records go, but I doubt he came to America as early as John R Rawlins speculates (around 1620 if I remember right) because there really wasn't anything (in Ipswich) around that time. I've attached a worksheet I've been adding everything to that I come across with James Rawlins information on it. See what you think, and let me know if you have any ideas.
thanks,
z
From: Gaylene Johnson [mailto:gjretired@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:30 PM
To: merrylu.zeller@gmail.com
Subject: RE: James Rawlin's Father
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:30 PM
To: merrylu.zeller@gmail.com
Subject: RE: James Rawlin's Father
Hi Merry Lu,
Thank you so much for replying. This is the first time I've seen a different line. I've had an uneasy feeling there are mistakes on the Rawlins line, but haven't researched it much. I have the Rollins book and he did a great job for his time, but I believe many more records are available now. Do you feel like the line after James is correct on New FamilySearch? It's the same line I have on my file. Have you ever been able to find anything on James immigration? I've searched several lists and haven't come up with anything.
My grandmother is Bertha Rawlins, just two years older than William. I'm curious. Why did William die in Missouri?
You have done amazing research. Let's keep in touch on this line and perhaps someday we could get together.
Thank you so much.
Gaylene Johnson
Sandy, Utah
Thank you so much for replying. This is the first time I've seen a different line. I've had an uneasy feeling there are mistakes on the Rawlins line, but haven't researched it much. I have the Rollins book and he did a great job for his time, but I believe many more records are available now. Do you feel like the line after James is correct on New FamilySearch? It's the same line I have on my file. Have you ever been able to find anything on James immigration? I've searched several lists and haven't come up with anything.
My grandmother is Bertha Rawlins, just two years older than William. I'm curious. Why did William die in Missouri?
You have done amazing research. Let's keep in touch on this line and perhaps someday we could get together.
Thank you so much.
Gaylene Johnson
Sandy, Utah
From: merrylu.zeller@gmail.com
To: vardneen@comcast.net; gjretired@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: James Rawlin's Father
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:27:15 -0600
To: vardneen@comcast.net; gjretired@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: James Rawlin's Father
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:27:15 -0600
Dear Gaylene,
My name is Merry Lu (Rawlins) Zeller, I am the one who submitted the work on James Rawlins linking him to Edward and Mary Rawlin. If you wish you may go to my blog and see the steps I've taken in finding James and his possible family (http://rawlins-research.blogspot.com/, in particular the entries for August and October of 2005) and see the extraction work I've been able to do. Our family too had the information about James being from Cornwall, information that seems to have originated from John Rodham Rawlins' research in the 1800's as his mention was the earliest I could find recorded. I spent considerable time searching all of the things published by Mr. Rawlins, and found that he left very few sources, other than ones that used Mr. Rawlins as their original source. My next step was to search for immigrants from Cornwall during the early 1600's. There were only 30 some recorded and as it was not an active participant in the Reformation movement I started to search elsewhere, namely Ipswich England, as a hunch that most Puritans/Pilgrims named the areas they arrived in after their homes in England. I searched each parish in an outward circle from Ipswich until I found references to what I thought might perhaps be the James I was looking for. I do not have conclusive proof that this is the link that I have been searching for for the past 10 years, but I didn't want to leave a family unsealed so requested that Aunt JaNeen have the temple work done for this little family that was extracted out of the Groton Parish records, hoping that it was the link to our family as well. Below is the will that I found for Edward Rawlin of Shelley. As you will notice he was also a blacksmith, a skill that James would have likely learned to become a wheelwright in his own stead.
I hope this has been of help to you. If you have any comments, helps or hints they would be most graciously accepted and welcomed.
Sincerely,
Merry Lu Zeller
25 East 200 South
Hyrum, UT 84319
In the Wills from the Archdeaconry of Suffolk: 1629 - 1636 pg 1635 Will # 923
Abstracts of wills contained in Register No 63 and/or file No. 71 of wills proved in the court of the Arch deacon of Suffolk I found:
R(W) Edward Rawlin (X) of Shelley, blacksmith 13 June 1635.
Sick in body. I give and bequeath to my son James the posted bedstead standing in the parlour. I give to my son Edward the bellows in the shop and also the stith*. I bequeath to my son Thomas all my clothes, both linen and woollen. I give to my daughter Mary, wife of Thomas Blosse, 20s. to be paid to her 3 months after my decease, and 5[pounds] to my daughter Anne to be paid at the same time. I give my grandchild Mary Blosse 10s. to buy her a bible. All the residue of my goods, my debts, legacies and funeral charges being paid, I give to my loving wife Mary whom I make sole exrx. Witnesses: Robert Goodwin, Thomas Gravener. Pr at Ipswich 10 July 1635.
R-register copy avail
W-the original is avail
X-his or her mark
Abstracts of wills contained in Register No 63 and/or file No. 71 of wills proved in the court of the Arch deacon of Suffolk I found:
R(W) Edward Rawlin (X) of Shelley, blacksmith 13 June 1635.
Sick in body. I give and bequeath to my son James the posted bedstead standing in the parlour. I give to my son Edward the bellows in the shop and also the stith*. I bequeath to my son Thomas all my clothes, both linen and woollen. I give to my daughter Mary, wife of Thomas Blosse, 20s. to be paid to her 3 months after my decease, and 5[pounds] to my daughter Anne to be paid at the same time. I give my grandchild Mary Blosse 10s. to buy her a bible. All the residue of my goods, my debts, legacies and funeral charges being paid, I give to my loving wife Mary whom I make sole exrx. Witnesses: Robert Goodwin, Thomas Gravener. Pr at Ipswich 10 July 1635.
R-register copy avail
W-the original is avail
X-his or her mark
* - An anvil; a stithy. [Obs. or Prov. Eng.] [1913 Webster]
He invented also pincers, hammers, iron crows, and the anvil, or stith. --Holland.
From: JaNeen and Ivard Budge [mailto:vardneen@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:22 AM
To: Merry Lu Zeller
Subject: Fw: James Rawlin's Father
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:22 AM
To: Merry Lu Zeller
Subject: Fw: James Rawlin's Father
Do we know the answer to this lady's question?
Also check out Nathaniel Rawlins and David Walters & Elizabeth Price from Wales or David Fender and Eliza Price from North Carolina. What the heck? I'm too old for this mess. HELP!!!!!
Hope all is well with you!
Love You! Aunt JaNeen
----- Original Message -----
From: Gaylene Johnson
To: vardneen@comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 10:32 PM
Subject: James Rawlin's Father
Hi JaNeen Budge,
I'm Gaylene Johnson, a descendent of James Rawlins, through Enoch Param Rollins, Enoch P Rollins & Sarah Jane Walters. The father I have for the original James Rawlins who came to America is Willyam Rowlen, 15 Apr 1587, Sancreed, Cornwall, England. I'm not sure where that info came from.
You have on New FamilySearch that James Rawlin's father is Edward Rawlins, 3 November 1577, Groton, Suffolk, England.
I was wondering if you have the sources. Could I get them from you? This is something I would like to know more about. Have you done a lot of research on the Rollins/Rawlins line? Who do you come through?
Thanks!
Gaylene Johnson
1225 E. Cottonwood Hills Dr.
Sandy, Utah 84094
(801) 566-4449
I'm Gaylene Johnson, a descendent of James Rawlins, through Enoch Param Rollins, Enoch P Rollins & Sarah Jane Walters. The father I have for the original James Rawlins who came to America is Willyam Rowlen, 15 Apr 1587, Sancreed, Cornwall, England. I'm not sure where that info came from.
You have on New FamilySearch that James Rawlin's father is Edward Rawlins, 3 November 1577, Groton, Suffolk, England.
I was wondering if you have the sources. Could I get them from you? This is something I would like to know more about. Have you done a lot of research on the Rollins/Rawlins line? Who do you come through?
Thanks!
Gaylene Johnson
1225 E. Cottonwood Hills Dr.
Sandy, Utah 84094
(801) 566-4449
